The great shotgun urban myth

[Littlelebowski]

My wife is tiny (4'8") and right now relies upon a 12 gauge pump. It knocked her around a little at the range but with low recoil buckshot rounds and the plethora of holes in the target made her feel confident with the weapon and that's all that really counts. As far CQB trained ninjas getting inside the arc of the shotgun and it being too long for sweeping, well this is an internet gun board and people "what if, what if, what if" way way too much. I've been to the Marine CQB instructor's course and I feel fine with my wife wielding a shotgun. Maybe I just don't have enough of an active imagination.

+1 on the ladies having a hard time with triggers. My wife simply cannot handle many handgun triggers. She can barely get her finger on most of them and a 7lb pull might as well be a 14lb pull for her. Before I hear the howls of "work out," I'll be t she works out more than most of you. So now she shoots a pistol she can shoot, on which she can manipulate the controls effectively and pull the trigger in a normal way (Springfield EMP). Note: her middle finger is the same size as my little finger.

The M1 carbine idea and PCC (pistol caliber carbine) are making me ponder things. It's kind of hard to find commercial self defense .30 carbine ammo, no? Maybe I need to look at 9mm carbines for the old lady.

I also have a "real" dog by most people's standards You tell me.

[Robb Jensen]

[Bob Dole voice] Bob Dole says hi ! [/Bob Dole voice]

[Jay Cunningham]

The M1 carbine idea and PCC (pistol caliber carbine) are making me ponder things. It's kind of hard to find commercial self defense .30 carbine ammo, no? Maybe I need to look at 9mm carbines for the old lady.

Cor-Bon makes a load that is supposedly effective, but I have no hard data on that.

[Littlelebowski]

[Bob Dole voice] Bob Dole says hi ! [/Bob Dole voice]

He sure was cool in person. Sort of a Zen like calm. You'll never find him without a pen in his hands.

[Alpha Sierra]

Also her stance changed from a slightly leaning forward stance to a sever backwards lean.

I am so utterly puzzled by why people feel the need to do this when shooting anything larger than a rimfire. And not just women.

[dtibbals]

I did not read all the pages but I did the first page. I have a few issues with the "pumping" the shotgun to chamber a round if a bad guy is there. All guns should be chambered and ready for action. When you are under stress you will probably forget that the gun is not chambered, you will probably be woken up and not 100% alert. Also you will have to either have the chamber open so you move the forearm forward or have to find that little button down by the trigger to release the action so you can cycle it. If you have the chamber open so you simply slide the forearm forward then you have to have a round sitting in the chamber. When you pick up the gun you run the risk of the round falling out or moving and causing the weapon to not close and the round jamming in the receiver. These are all VERY bad if your trying to defend your life!

My second issue is to chamber a round to try to let the bad guy know your there. The last thing I want is for the bad guy to know where I am at and or that I am armed. The element of surprise is in your favor. You know your home and he does not, you also probably have a good idea where he is at in your home and he may not even know your there. You also do not know who he is, if there is more then one and if they are armed etc. The last thing I want to do is give him a heads up that I have a shot gun, where I am at in the home and put him in the mind set to find me and take me out.

The best case scenario is that you are locked in a bedroom or bathroom, have called 911 and have help on the way prior to anything happening. If you have other family in the home you may not be able to barricade yourself from the bad guy and have to take a more defensive role to protect others. I would hope you could gather your family into a room to protect them prior to the bad guy getting to that part of the house. In any scenario you do not want the bad guy to hear anything and you want to catch him off guard.

For the OP I agree that a shotgun is not a good house weapon for a lot of people. I would suggest a nice revolver in the 3-4" range or a G19 or similar. It needs to be reliable and easy to use under stress. We all have to except the fact that the far majority of people buy a weapon for the home and some to carry on their person and then never practice or take training in the use of that weapon. The majority of these people will be lucky at best to use that weapon to protect themselves. They need it to be as simple and idiot proof as possible because they are going to be under great stress and have very minimal amount of experience.

I always get amazed when going to gun stores how many people are buying a gun and have no idea about what they are buying, how to remove the mag, how to take it apart etc etc. These people do not sit and read forums like this that's for sure.

Dave

[C4IGrant]

I did not read all the pages but I did the first page. I have a few issues with the "pumping" the shotgun to chamber a round if a bad guy is there. All guns should be chambered and ready for action. When you are under stress you will probably forget that the gun is not chambered, you will probably be woken up and not 100% alert. Also you will have to either have the chamber open so you move the forearm forward or have to find that little button down by the trigger to release the action so you can cycle it. If you have the chamber open so you simply slide the forearm forward then you have to have a round sitting in the chamber. When you pick up the gun you run the risk of the round falling out or moving and causing the weapon to not close and the round jamming in the receiver. These are all VERY bad if your trying to defend your life!

My second issue is to chamber a round to try to let the bad guy know your there. The last thing I want is for the bad guy to know where I am at and or that I am armed. The element of surprise is in your favor. You know your home and he does not, you also probably have a good idea where he is at in your home and he may not even know your there. You also do not know who he is, if there is more then one and if they are armed etc. The last thing I want to do is give him a heads up that I have a shot gun, where I am at in the home and put him in the mind set to find me and take me out.

The best case scenario is that you are locked in a bedroom or bathroom, have called 911 and have help on the way prior to anything happening. If you have other family in the home you may not be able to barricade yourself from the bad guy and have to take a more defensive role to protect others. I would hope you could gather your family into a room to protect them prior to the bad guy getting to that part of the house. In any scenario you do not want the bad guy to hear anything and you want to catch him off guard.

For the OP I agree that a shotgun is not a good house weapon for a lot of people. I would suggest a nice revolver in the 3-4" range or a G19 or similar. It needs to be reliable and easy to use under stress. We all have to except the fact that the far majority of people buy a weapon for the home and some to carry on their person and then never practice or take training in the use of that weapon. The majority of these people will be lucky at best to use that weapon to protect themselves. They need it to be as simple and idiot proof as possible because they are going to be under great stress and have very minimal amount of experience.

I always get amazed when going to gun stores how many people are buying a gun and have no idea about what they are buying, how to remove the mag, how to take it apart etc etc. These people do not sit and read forums like this that's for sure.

Dave

Couple good points Dave. I think the comments about the "sound of the SG being chambered a round will scare a BG away" are kind of silly. IF you are going to tell the BG your location, then use you voice and tell them to GET OUT or that you have a gun and have called the police. Giving this type of warning will also look good in court if you did shoot them.

No one wants to shoot anyone if they do not have too, but if you have to do it you had better make sure they are dead!


C4

[C4IGrant]

Cor-Bon makes a load that is supposedly effective, but I have no hard data on that.

Correct Sir.

The M1 is a good idea I think.


C4

[Spooky130]

How about a M1 Carbine?

You did all the work - you should have linked it to this:

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19956

I thought this was a great little review. Are there any plans to test the Corbon DPX rounds - I would imagine there is little demand for that information.

To set up an M1 carbine as pictured is as follows:

$500 USGI carbine (CMP rack grade - maybe add $100 for the extra work involved)
$50 G2 light
$60 Vltor mount
$400 to $600 RDS optic (Look at the LaRue IronDot on the low end and an Aimpoint T-1 on the high-end)
$95 for Ultimak mount
$20 15 round mags (an average after a quick Google search)

As a base gun, the carbine would be rather affordable. I still think the shotgun would probably be the cheapest solution here. And as many have mentioned this might be a combination that doesn't look too "offensive," has manageable recoil for women and smaller statured folks, plus it would probably be fairly effective with the rounds DocGKR mentioned...

Spooky

[mark5pt56]

I'm not getting into anything thing here, but I will say this.

We used to have 870's issued, I can say that there were numerous occasions, with me deploying the shotgun to where bad guy(s) were being held at gunpoint (pistol) but not 100% compliant and when I showed up and chambered a round, they couldn't get on the ground fast enough.

I can remember one very clear to where there was an Armed Robbery on the Eastern Shore, these guys came across the CBBT, I was second on scene with the stop, they were pulling their guns out on the first officer on scene, when I went on scene shortly thereafter and got out(hastily I might add) they saw me with the shotgun and the three threw down their pistols. (don't fing shoot me with that thing was screamed by two, the other actually pissed himself)
There's no doubt in my mind that bad things would have happened that early morning if it wasn't for that display of force, it was very close, very close.

You can guess on your theory all you want, but until you've used one in real life, keep guessing.

Does it have range limitations, of course it does, but it's a tool isn't it?