The One Gun Solution (GP Carbine) - Reality?

[ASH556]

forget it

[Ironman8]

I replied with the first pic earlier in this thread. From having tried piles of optics over the years I honestly believed that a "one gun" solution was not a reality. The one thing I'd never tried before and really wanted to was the piggyback RMR on the ACOG. The TA11 specifically because it is the most forgiving ACOG. Huge FOV compared to the TA33, but massive eye relief compared to the TA31. Sure it's bigger and heavier than those models, but at 14oz it's still lighter than pretty much all LPVO's, especially once you factor in the mount. The ACOG glass is marvelous and those that have shot a lot know that glass quality trumps magnification. If you look back a few pages you'll see a 10-shot .88 MOA group I fired at 100yds with Speer Gold Dot from a COLT 14.5" barrel using a TA11 ACOG. The point is, that if you have the right reticle and good glass, 3.5X magnification can be better than 6X or 8X with worse glass and reticle. Adding the RMR on top of the ACOG is NOT the chin-weld everyone said it would be. I find it to be far faster to move my head slightly up/down to switch between the optics and it's faster than rolling the gun...at least for me. I've had offset dot and irons setups in the past and they were nowhere near as fast and intuitive as the piggyback RMR.

Like @Valhalla I treat the RMR as the primary sight and then drop into the ACOG when the shot calls for it (Precision, distance, whatever).

Mark 10:8 “...and the two shall become one.”

So are you saying that you now find the ACOG/RMR to be the answer to your one gun solution?

[ASH556]

So are you saying that you now find the ACOG/RMR to be the answer to your one gun solution?

**** it

[JediGuy]

Theoretically speaking...because I am not a pipehitter.

I currently set up my 12.5” Kino as the all around carbine. MRO in ADM QD mount, and Vortex PST 1-4x in GG&G QD mount (until it sells...), both zero’d with IMI Razorcore 77 gr. I currently have a BCM/Troy rear BUIS “in case.” Warcomp for an eventual suppressor purchase. And low light flash suppression. That said, I’m not entirely sold on the 400yd with a 12.5” barrel, particularly with a 1-4x.
So, I have the parts to have Citizen Arms put together a 16” upper, with a Leopold 3-9x and offset older Insight MRDS. I like to imagine these two uppers check the boxes for most situations.

My second rifle has a Colt CCU upper with PST 1-6x. I would take this over state lines into IL. Besides that... I always grab the 12.5” to go shooting.
To go with this lower, I also have an 11.5” suppressed-only upper that BRT put together for me, just waiting on the direct thread suppressor to clear. End goal there is to set that up for NODs.

Ultimately, I think my less-experienced plans mirror what you’re describing. I have a feeling I’ll end up selling off the CCU upper, as much as I like it. The 12.5” do-all, 16” recce, and 11.5” night-bumps seem to check all possible boxes for me.

[Ironman8]

Theoretically speaking...because I am not a pipehitter.

I currently set up my 12.5” Kino as the all around carbine. MRO in ADM QD mount, and Vortex PST 1-4x in GG&G QD mount (until it sells...), both zero’d with IMI Razorcore 77 gr. I currently have a BCM/Troy rear BUIS “in case.” Warcomp for an eventual suppressor purchase. And low light flash suppression. That said, I’m not entirely sold on the 400yd with a 12.5” barrel, particularly with a 1-4x.
So, I have the parts to have Citizen Arms put together a 16” upper, with a Leopold 3-9x and offset older Insight MRDS. I like to imagine these two uppers check the boxes for most situations.

My second rifle has a Colt CCU upper with PST 1-6x. I would take this over state lines into IL. Besides that... I always grab the 12.5” to go shooting.
To go with this lower, I also have an 11.5” suppressed-only upper that BRT put together for me, just waiting on the direct thread suppressor to clear. End goal there is to set that up for NODs.

Ultimately, I think my less-experienced plans mirror what you’re describing. I have a feeling I’ll end up selling off the CCU upper, as much as I like it. The 12.5” do-all, 16” recce, and 11.5” night-bumps seem to check all possible boxes for me.

In a perfect world I would say the same thing, all three would fill each role nicely. 11.5” for CQB, 12.5” Do All 0-400, and a 16” RECCE for out to 600. Personally, I’ve taken an 11.7” barrel with NX8 out to 600 and have no issues calling it a solid 400 yd gun. Past 400, hits start to get a little harder with wind and other weather. That’s where my thoughts on the 12.5” come from.

But, hypothetically speaking, how would I want a gun configured if I wanted to fill all parameters outlined above and could only grab one? Or would I need to grab a full gun + specialized upper to complete the package? That’s what I’m driving at for this discussion.

[JediGuy]

With a great barrel and an experienced shooter, I’d say the 12.5.” Free-float a Kino with a Centurion C4 M-LOK, but with some sort of barrel that tapers to use a .625 FSP rather than BCM’s .750. There’s going to be a (relative) ton of weight out front already, between the night vision stuff, flashlight, and FSP.
PEQ15, Reptilia smaller body light. At least what I’ve found is that if it’s getting crowded and heavy, I’ll probably want a foregrip.
When it comes to optics... I’m thinking your NF is a lot lighter than my PST 1-6x, so keep that and offset a MRDS or T-2/clone.
Short suppressor, like the Saker K or Surefire whatever.

That’s still going to be a heavy gun to haul around, once you consider we’re at quaternary sighting systems. So trim down by foregoing the Kino setup and rear BUIS. That saves a couple ounces, and you keep the offset RDS for use under NODs.

I’m spitballing.

[Failure2Stop]

My go-to is either a 14.5 with a short can, or an 11.5 with a larger can.
Both with an LPVO, light, and IR laser/flood.
I have gone past 1k with the 14.5 and purpose-oriented ammo.
The overall length and weight of both is very similar.
The 11.5 shines indoors due to the more effective suppressor, while the 14.5 takes over once past pistol-caliber range.

[RHINOWSO]

Ah, the quest for the unobtainable.

I'm more of a 11.5" because if you are going short, go short & 14.5/16" because you gain a lot with those inches.

I have all 3 but I'm not gonna start selling because of internet gymnastics.

[Ironman8]

My go-to is either a 14.5 with a short can, or an 11.5 with a larger can.
Both with an LPVO, light, and IR laser/flood.
I have gone past 1k with the 14.5 and purpose-oriented ammo.
The overall length and weight of both is very similar.
The 11.5 shines indoors due to the more effective suppressor, while the 14.5 takes over once past pistol-caliber range.

I know you use the IR laser for aiming at night under NODs, but when you have to go IR to vis spectrum quickly, how do handle the LPVO in that situation? My understanding is that’s where an RDS works well in comparison since you don’t have the eye relief limitations. Keep in mind I’ve had about a 4 hr block of instruction on NODs from Pressburg and that’s the extent of my knowledge other than reading things here and there.

And back more on topic, which do you pick for the 0-400 parameters in the OP if you had to just pick one?

[MistWolf]

My go-to is either a 14.5 with a short can, or an 11.5 with a larger can.
Both with an LPVO, light, and IR laser/flood.
I have gone past 1k with the 14.5 and purpose-oriented ammo.
The overall length and weight of both is very similar.
The 11.5 shines indoors due to the more effective suppressor, while the 14.5 takes over once past pistol-caliber range.

Jack, which suppressors are you using for the 11.5 & 14.5 inch?

Why not use a short can with the 11.5"? My thoughts are, if you're going short, go short. Instead of going with a longer suppressor on a short barrel, just go with a longer barrel and reap the benefits of more velocity. Is it because the longer suppressor is quieter? Is it quiet enough to give up the extra velocity?

Thanks