I thought rejects (from Federal at least) had a white sticker on each box that said "For Training Use Only" on them. Like you can't miss it.
I thought rejects (from Federal at least) had a white sticker on each box that said "For Training Use Only" on them. Like you can't miss it.
11C2P '83-'87
Airborne Infantry
F**k China!
I have a bit of XM556FBIT3M in my stash that I bought a few years back. They function 100%, but the accuracy isn't great. Maybe 3-4 MOA.
They are clearly marked as seconds on the boxes with the comment "ACCY OUT", so it's not all that surprising.
IMG_1342.jpg
I'm seeing just over 1.5moa to 2+moa out of 3 Noveske 14.5" barrels at 100 yards so I think its capable of the accuracy, not Camp Perry or sniper level like you said, but its capable, at least the lots of it I have and shot. The groups that are closer to 1moa are less frequent than the 2ish moa ones. I've not shot any that produced 3 or more moa. Of course I dont think it's intended to be capable of precision like most of us think of precision is it?
I have over 5000 of the TBBC bullets (guess what I've been doing with my forced time off) and have loaded some decent loads with them using 24.8gr of Vhitavuori N530 (over published max 3048 fps,23ft SD) 25.0gr of WC844 (H335) 24.2gr of WC844 and 23.6gr of 8208xbr. Accuracy is not much better but does seem to be more consistent and those loads are closer to MOA than the factory loads I have (3 different lots).
RealeyesRealizeRealLies
BCM 16" RECCE MK2 DkBrz, Custom Mk12 Mod1 built by Monty LeClair, 16" Middy w/ HCS RECCE barrel, A5, Young NM BCG, SSP, Geissele NM rail, Ops Inc., Super CH. 14.5" middy Noveske Afghan X3, 10.3" pistol DD barrell, Benelli M4, Ruger 10/22 w/Victor stock, GLOCK 17 Gen 4, Dan Wesson Valor Duty Coat, Dan Wesson Valor Blue, Dan Wesson Silverback 10mm, S&W 27 4"
B Co 4th502nd Inf Reg. '86-'90. 11b
B Co 3rd187th InfReg. '90-'94. 11b
Iron Rakkasans
“The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."
They have have been 1.5-2.25 moa for me and my guns. I would recommend the gold dot offering in 62/64 grain and the 75 grain if accurate barrier blind ammo is the goal and you can take a slight velocity hit.
I've never seen factory seconds rounds or boxes. Don't buy a lot of factory, but what does this factory second fodder sale for on the street?
I would hope an FBI load would produce 2 MOA at WORST. Jeez man. Do they have to run sft points or some shite? Black Hills OTM is the goods for factory IMHO.
PB
"Air Force / Policeman / Fireman / Man of God / Friend of mine / R.I.P. Steve Lamy"
AQ planned for years and sent their A team to carry out the attacks, and on Flight 93 they were thwarted by a pick-up team made up of United Frequent Fliers. Many people look at 9/11 and wonder how we can stop an enemy like that. I look at FL93 and wonder, "How can we lose?". -- FromMyColdDeadHand
Why would they want Black Hills OTM? The FBI has stressed barrier-blind performance in their ammunition -- pistol and rifle -- for decades now. Heavy OTMs for all their benefits have their performance severely degraded by intermediate barriers.
JSPs are great rounds for the niche and uses the FBI finds themselves in.
I’ve bought thousands of XM loads from Federal over my time as range sergeant. They have all been regular production, not seconds.
As for the original question. No, the 62gr Federal bonded loads (whether the 5.56 specifically mentioned or the LE223T3 loads) are not tack drivers. In my good rifles, I see 5 shot groups at 100yds going from the occasional 1” to the more common 2.5“ to 3”. This is fine for most all of the police engagements that will occur, especially with patrol officers using red dots. Were I wanting more precision, I would look at some of the Black Hills loads, especially with the Barnes TSX bullets. I like the Black Hills 62gr TSX round for personal use. But am using the LE223Ts round for duty as it is department issued.
I have also tried the Ranger 64gr and found it to be on par for accuracy with the Federal bonded loads.
As a bonus, the LE223T3 loads have a nickel case so I can immediately know whether the magazine is filled with range fodder or carry ammo.
The emphasis on these rounds (both Federal and Ranger) is on what they do when they hit the ‘combat scoring’ zone on a bad guy. They are both excellent in that regard, both with and without barriers.
In the end, we tend to over think this. Here is a simple 4 step process...
1) Buy samples of a few rounds that perform well when they hit the target (Refer to FBI tests as a good resource, available on letter head from Quantico, or study Molon’s posts).
2) Shoot these sample loads to see which ones are acceptable through your rifle as far as grouping.
3) Buy more of those.
4) Buy similar weight FMJ rounds and practice.
Number 4 is far and away the most important.
Factory loads topped with the 62 grain Trophy Bonded Bear Claw
Federal Tactical 62 grain Bonded SP LE223T3
Federal XM556FBIT3
Federal XM556SBCT3 62 Grain TBBC
To show what premium 62-64 grain bonded bullets are capable of . . .
Hand-loaded 62 grain Gold Dot . . .
Hand-loaded 64 grain Nosler BSB . . .
…..
All that is necessary for trolls to flourish, is for good men to do nothing.
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