Just finished a BUG class with Ken Hackathorn/ J-frame thoughts.

[The Dumb Gun Collector]

Hey guys,


Just finished a 1 day back up gun course with Ken Hackathorn (it was a 2 day course with the first day focused on full-sized (i.e. range toys) guns and low-light shooting.

The class was relaxed, but not easy. He basically holds bug guns to the same standards he does full sized guns. This makes sense, basically you should be able to shoot your BUG proficiently or not shoot it. We did your usual Bill drills and the Vickers "the Test" and various head shot drills all the way back to 20 yards. Basically, you really need to be able to land head shots with you bug at "long" pistol ranges not because you are really going to be face shooting terrorists at the mall, but because you need to be able to shoot your gun proficiently (because you are sure to shoot worse under pressure). We of course did a bunch of shooting on the move, etc.

I shot my J-frame and did pretty well. I screwed up one walk-back Bill drill but basically did fine on every thing else (not saying perfect, but fine). I kept an eye on other folks, and I was at least keeping up and a lot of folks were shooting mid-sized and large guns. Not too bad for the J.

Ken basically thinks the overarching criteria for a gun has to be your ability to shoot it competently. Comfort is secondary (and a distant second). He did throw in the caveat that he lives in Idaho, so it is easier for him to conceal larger guns, and that back in his warmer, Ohio-bound days he often just tossed a J-frame in his pocket.

That being said he thinks you should shoot the largest gun you can get away with. He was shooting a custom Glock 43 with Hack sights and a lightened trigger. He was able to shoot competently at all ranges with it, which was sort of his minimum standard.

He thinks you should always carry spare ammo. He preferred speed strips to speed-loaders--basically because they were so easy to transport. He preferred safari land speed loaders of the available speed loaders.

I was shooting some lead Blazer 158 grains and actually had a poorly (read zero) crimped round pull out and jam up my cylinder while we were doing a figure 8 drill around some barrels. I actually beat the cylinder open on the barrel and got the gun reloaded.

I would say that Ken was pretty down on the idea of carrying the J-frame unless you were really, really proficient. Which I can, of course, agree with. That being said, his criticism of the J-frame was primarily rooted in the fact that they are extremely difficult to shoot to a high degree of proficiency compared to mid-to compact autoloaders. He said if you are going to carry one you are going to have to put the practice in. This is true with every gun, but it is harder with the J.

In summary, great class. It is always an honor to shoot with Ken. At 70 he is definitely winding down his schedule so try to get in if you can. You get a lot of "straight-dope" on gun industry stuff because Ken is pretty fearless, especially now.

Untitled by stoiclawyer, on Flickr

[BuzzinSATX]

Nice summary on the class and KH thoughts.

BTW...I really like your signature line...and I don't even own an 'ought-six!

[The Dumb Gun Collector]

BTW...I really like your signature line...and I don't even own an 'ought

Me neither!!!lol

[Lost River]

Great review.

KH is a pretty interesting guy. He reminds me a lot of a couple of my mentors, from long ago.

I know the new G43 is certainly easier for most (including me) to get better performance out of than a J Frame, but after carrying a J frame as a BUG for close to 20 years, I am not quite ready to give it up.

[Edmo]

Nice review Greg, and congrats on running a J frame in the course. They can be a hard platform to master, especially at any distance. I tip my hat to those who take the J frame challenge and do well at it.

I'm also a J frame fan and have carried them since I got my first one in 1985. There has been one in a pocket or on the belt many times in my past.

However, I must admit about a year ago I got a GLOCK 43 which now often fills that "small, light, easy to carry" niche for me.

Your review reminds me that I need to take one of Ken's courses.

Edmo

[Sam]

I have to agree with the counselor.

J frames and other little revolvers are not easy to shoot. I've shot revolvers since I was a teenager, so I had a little head start on most milleniums and other shooters. It took me a long time to become competent.

Another observation, Greg, myself and another student shot from pocket holsters, which is how we carry most of the time. Since Greg was on opposite end of the firing line from me I didn't get to observe him shooting. But I noticed that every time, I mean every time, my buddy with the J that drew from the pocket, was always the first to get the shot off. Ken allowed us to start with our hand on the gun in the pocket. So he got his shot off first every time, beating guys with Glock 19, Shield, Glock 43 that drew from belt holsters (iwb or owb). The reason we started with our hand already on the gun is that it make sense, when one carry in the pocket we can discretely get a firing grip when we sense danger or potential problem without offending or upsetting other people. If the issue goes away we can easily go on our business and no one will ever know.

That was the first time I shot any J frame in any class (I've shot K frames before). I think the three of us who brought our own J's validated our reasons for carrying them and now have much more confidence in shooting them under stress. Makes me want to get another one, I already have three).

[Sam]

I know the new G43 is certainly easier for most (including me) to get better performance out of than a J Frame, but after carrying a J frame as a BUG for close to 20 years, I am not quite ready to give it up.

By all means, keep carrying the J if you are competent with it and when the occasion dictates it.

[RHINOWSO]

Great review.

Didn't want to shoot the 22LR J-frame?

[The Dumb Gun Collector]

I wussed out on that project. Claude Werner ran a .22 Beretta like a boss.

[SteveS]

Great write up! With practice a J frame can be fairly accurate surprisingly so actually. But the J frames forte and this is where it excels is very close range to up close and personal,body contact close. Old timers would call it a belly gun. This use is probably what most people who carry a small self defense gun will use it 99.99% of the time for. It will fire with contact to a body.