600 yard steel shooting with 5.56 - 9/2/2017 - Sub MOA @ 1000 (lol but for real)

[taliv]

Interesting thread. It would be challenging for sure. If the goal were stated something like 6-7 hits out of 10 shots, my money would be against it every time. But I sure would love to see you do it.

Couple comments

- a big plus one on shooting a larger target so you can see the misses. It's really hard to spot impact in loose dirt at that level of precision. Easy to see dirt fly, but really hard to tell if you need to correct 1" or 2" or 1.5"

- I don't believe the gas system and moving parts really contribute much if any to inaccuracies. I agree with the part about the bullet and case neck being beat up a bit during feeding but that is super easy to create a test to prove one way or the other. But the big contributor is lock time. I'd really recommend comparing the lock time on the geiselle hi speed with the ssa-eh before buying.

- Go 18" for sure. Or even 20+

- go 1-7 or maybe even 1-6.5 so you can shoot the heavies if you want. Read litz' recent works on twist rate.

[taliv]

I have no idea why iPhone autocorrect replaced ssa-e with ssa-eh
It's kinda funny though. Maybe someone at Apple prefers the ar gold? Or Maybe the Canadians have hacked Apple?

[Noodles]

The goal isn't to simply shoot really far, really well. I already have a rifle that excels in that role.

The goal is to shoot as accurately as possible with .223 in the AR platform given realistic budgetary, weight, and length constraints.

Let me just...

Awhile back, I set up my 16" AR as a precision gun to be a trainer as sorts to my other precision guns. The idea being that wind on 223 is more noticeable than on 308 or 6.5 or whatever, so learning wind on 223 should make those other calibers easier. And it does... EXCEPT...

You're in this thread comparing your performance with a 308 bolt gun to your idealized performance with a 556 semi-auto. I'm warning you, that no matter how good a shooter you think you are - semis aren't bolts. There is an issue of follow-through that largely does not exist in a bolt gun and matters greatly with a semi. I've seen EXCELLENT shooters struggle to hold 2MOA when switching back to a semi-auto after awhile.

So, now you have a gun with more variables, and you're trying to hold it to the same standards as a bolt gun. The 4" target at 600, while adding more factors like wind, BC, etc.


I'll tell you exactly what's going to happen. With a target that small and/or expectations like yours, you're going to miss, but when you miss, it won't be that kind of miss that you knew what you did wrong and correct it. You'll THINK you know what you did wrong, you'll adjust, and you'll miss again. And again. You'll never have a great idea of WHY you are missing. With a target that small, hits and misses just won't give you the data that you need. Maybe you have a great spotter and the right light, and you can break and call center, and they'll see it started to veer left from wind at 300yards - but likely not. At 600y, a miss by 1ft left, could look like you hit behind it, or depending on where the dust flies even like a miss to the right. Perspective can be a bitch.

Get a bigger target, or at first, lower your expectations.

[Eurodriver]

I'll tell you exactly what's going to happen. With a target that small and/or expectations like yours, you're going to miss, but when you miss, it won't be that kind of miss that you knew what you did wrong and correct it. You'll THINK you know what you did wrong, you'll adjust, and you'll miss again. And again. You'll never have a great idea of WHY you are missing. With a target that small, hits and misses just won't give you the data that you need. Maybe you have a great spotter and the right light, and you can break and call center, and they'll see it started to veer left from wind at 300yards - but likely not. At 600y, a miss by 1ft left, could look like you hit behind it, or depending on where the dust flies even like a miss to the right. Perspective can be a bitch.

Get a bigger target, or at first, lower your expectations.

5 years later and I still think about this post every time I share the video of me consistently nailing an 8" gong in 30mph crosswinds...or a 1/2 IPSC mover at 600 yards in the rain at ALTUS.

[markm]

Our biggest wind holds at any distance has been 6 mils. I think that was at the 1300 yard gong. I blame climate change!!

[pointblank4445]

5 years later and I still think about this post every time I share the video of me consistently nailing an 8" gong in 30mph crosswinds...or a 1/2 IPSC mover at 600 yards in the rain at ALTUS.

My biggest regret in shooting is once buying into the limitations widely held by the internet.

[Averageman]

The goal isn't to simply shoot really far, really well. I already have a rifle that excels in that role.

The goal is to shoot as accurately as possible with .223 in the AR platform given realistic budgetary, weight, and length constraints.

Thanks for posting this.
You've inspired me to do something of my own, with this idea. I'm not starting with as much detail as it appears you are going in to, but I'm a journeyman here and not with the level of experience that others like you have.
I put together a 20" BCM on an A2 lower, not to shoot 600 yds, but to refine my skill level to reach that goal later.
This has been very informative to someone like me who wishes to develop a higher skill level.

[TheJawn]

removed

[Eurodriver]

I bought a Krieger 20" 223 Wylde, MUR, and a Geissele Mk4.

I'll update this when I've got rounds through it.

[californiasushi]

I would go 20" over other barrel lengths for a submoa target at 600y to give you the best edge against wind. Another consideration is that a cut-rifled Krieger should have a longer barrel life than a button-rifled WOA Wilson so the cost per shot in terms of barrel life isnt as much as you might think. Accuracy at distance is where you should see the dropoff first and your accuracy requirement is very demanding IMO.