The Fighting Carbine, AK Edition

[Matt O]

What a great reference document - thanks for compiling and writing all of this up!

[SteyrAUG]

Thanks for taking the time to write all that.

Been a few months since somebody has posted something as informative and useful.

[shep854]

I just finished going through the whole thread--enlightening read!

Something that really stood out to me was Jippo's comment on 5/30/12:
"VFG:
One serious drawback in using a VFG with an AK is it's effect on POI. Especially so if it is used to support the weapon against a barricade etc. AK's generally come with relatively thin non-freefloat barrels that tend to vibrate a lot when fired. In my experience difference between pushing and pulling the VFG can mean a POI shift of 10 inches or more at 100m distance."

I installed a Romy 'Donkey Dong' lower handguard on my WASR, for the comfortable angled grip it gives me. The above comment gives me pause, though. Is a simple, solid grip using this handguard likely to throw me off badly, to the point that going back to a straight handguard is recommended?

[Uprange41]

The above comment gives me pause, though. Is a simple, solid grip using this handguard likely to throw me off badly, to the point that going back to a straight handguard is recommended?

In the other thread, you say you've got over 1000 rounds through your rifle. Do you notice a POI shift when shooting in difference positions with the VFG?

If so, there you have it. If not, well... there you have it.

[shep854]

In the other thread, you say you've got over 1000 rounds through your rifle. Do you notice a POI shift when shooting in difference positions with the VFG?

If so, there you have it. If not, well... there you have it.

HA! Got me!! I never thought to consider this; the vast majority of my shooting was at steel plates--a 'CLANG was good enough.

[RogerinTPA]

Excellent write up. I just installed the Ace stock last week. That stock locks very firmly in place either folder or extended. It is a very solid piece of kit.

Those with a Bulgarian receiver (1.5mm vs 1.0mm thickness in most other AKs), you will have to shave down the Universal receiver block on the sides from Ace ( I used a Dremel), in order for it to fit properly.

[pat701]

I would go with a Sig 556, all the bugs are out now they are GTG.

[SteyrAUG]

I would go with a Sig 556, all the bugs are out now they are GTG.

Hardly.

They are still screwing the rail to a stamped receiver, the gas plugs still have the same vent hole issues, the diopter sights are still worse than some airsoft gear I have seen, the sling point attachments still result in a mousetrap setup and the US made "swiss style furniture" is tokyo maru quality.

We really need a specific SIG 556 discussion forum.

[Aries144]

I performed an abbreviated "test" similar to the one Dave-M posted pictures of, above. I experienced similar results, with shift apparent in both the horizontal and the vertical.

Shift was measured from the center of groups. Maximum shift appeared to be approximately 2". The test was performed at 100 yards using an Aimpoint R-1 mounted to the TWS topcover. The rifle was zeroed and then 4 additional targets shot, the top cover being opened and closed 10 times before engaging each of the 4 final targets.

I contacted the maker of the rail and spoke with him on the phone today. He suggested I increase the horizontal tension of the topcover by bending the tension 'tab' on the side inward a little. He stated that he has demonstrated the TWS rail on a Vepr 7.62x54R, achieving hits on targets at ranges out to 700 yards at an event where the top cover was randomly and repeatedly opened to show off the working mechanism to curious individuals. He further stated that the only time he has seen vertical group shifting was in an instance where the dimple on a rifle's rear sight leaf spring was not engaged, allowing it to shift. He stated the rear sight leaf spring is necessary and must be in place when the cover is installed and must not move after top cover installation.

I plan to repeat the test with the following differences:

1. Bend 'tab' on side of cover inward, increasing tension.

2. Remove mount and check that rear sight spring is properly positioned and is remaining in its proper position. Experiment to determine whether or not this spring is shifting.

3. Remove Aimpoint R-1 and substitute 4x VOMZ Pilad scope to assist in removing human error.

4. Fire 5 control groups to verify zero is not wandering when top cover remains in place and that I am not a significant source of errors for the purposes of this test.

5. Use multiple 5-shot groups instead of 10-shot groups to reduce human error from fatigue.

6. Shoot each target, remove it, and replace with the next target in the exact same location on the target board rather than engaging multiple targets arranged side-by-side or above and below each other. This is to eliminate the possibility of differences in lighting, slight angular differences, etc from introducing an error factor.

I'll post here with pictures when this is complete.

[Matt O]

Aries144, definitely let us know what you find out.