Big Army says no more polymer mags

[CarlosDJackal]

Putside of normal wear and tear, I have not had any issues with my aluminum "GI" magazines. However, I most exclusively use PMags nowadays.

That being said, I think this is a good idea. Too many GIs will buy the cheapest magazines they come across, use it once, and then declare it reiable enough for combat.

I know an AD AF type who is convinced that his Olympic Arms Carbine and Troy polymer magazines is the best combination even though he has never put these through a multi-day training course. But since he fancies himself an SME of sorts (no, he is not SF) you can't teach him anything because he already knows it all.

I perzonally have no problems using GI mags as long as they are made by the top manufactureres. YMMV.

[Robb Jensen]

Policies such as this are "dumbing down" meaning they make a policy like this because there are people out there who think all polymer mags are created equal. Some people think for instance that Tapco mags are just as good as PMAGs, same dumbasses think all polymer pistols are created equal.

The problem with USGI aluminum mags is that people don't destroy them when they're past their service life and are causing stoppages. They try to fix them instead of tossing them in the trash. You can't fix a cracked double feeding polymer mag. I have no issues with USGI mags within their service life other than that and I own 50 or so. Once they cause a stoppage or are damaged I shitcan them.

Everything has a service life, the key is figuring out what the expected service life of a part is and to replace it before it fails. Example:

I replace my cam pins every 3K rounds or more often if they're really battered. (I find doing this seems to make bolts last longer)
Extractors, extractor pins and springs and firing pins every 10K
CAR buffer springs when they get to 10.25" in length
Hammer, trigger and disconnector springs every 7-10k rounds
Bolts every 7-10K rounds
I can't recall the last time I've had a malfunction that wasn't caused by the ammunition.

[M4Guru]

The USGI mags are great. I like PMAGs just fine but I go fight with USGI mags that I inspect, maintain, and just replace whenever I feel like it. I dry heave when ARC mags come up...mine all wouldn't work in any gun.

Like every other feed system, it's a disposable item. I don't think you'd have problems with either as long as you're not afraid to sacrifice them to the dumpster gods earlier than you'd like to.

[rickp]

USGI is all i've ever used. I've never had a reason to go to PMags since USGI mags have always worked as intended, even in the shitty environment of the Middle East. Like any other gun part, maintain it as well as you can, mark them for training or operational use, and when they fail discard appropriately.

If I remember right what turned me off from jumping on the Pmag fad was that the originals ones had issues on some AR's. I just remember something wasnt 100% with them. I'm sure others are more educated on the whole Pmag history.

[a0cake]

When you're discussing magazines and the military, or specifically the military's perception of certain magazines, there is a habit / action that is so prevalent and of such importance to the discussion but is rarely mentioned.

There's this disease in the military, where people take off their armor and out of exhaustion, ignorance, and laziness, plop it down on the hard ground. Drop is probably a better word than plop. Often, the brunt of the impact falls directly on the magazine feed lips. Watch any average platoon take their kit off. 90% of them will essentially slam their magazines on the ground feed-lips first without even thinking about it.

Fix this bad habit, and magazine performance will become way less of an issue. All these equipment based solutions are of minimal importance compared to the issue of dumbasses slamming their magazines on the ground day in and day out.

I've said for a while now that there needs to be a substantial and deliberate effort to dedicate a day or two Army wide and go through every single magazine in circulation to identify the ones that need to be replaced. Direct every single soldier (in the fighting units at least) to gather up every magazine in his control. At the company level, put everybody in a loose formation with a pile of magazines in front of each soldier. Explain how to test and inspect the magazines. Do it, and chuck the bad ones. Have the supply sergeant do a 1 for 1 swap for every bad magazine found. Now that the bad magazines are out of circulation, have every soldier number his magazines with stencils and spray paint. Instruct them to keep track of which magazines are performing and to ditch the ones that aren't. Instruct them to stop slamming their body armor on the ground. Enforce all of the above.

The VAST majority of M4 malfunctions are magazine related. Fix this magazine epidemic and suddenly people will stop complaining about the M4's reliability.

[Ronin64]

When you're discussing magazines and the military, or specifically the military's perception of certain magazines, there is a habit / action that is so prevalent and of such importance to the discussion but is rarely mentioned.

There's this disease in the military, where people take off their armor and out of exhaustion, ignorance, and laziness, plop it down on the hard ground. Drop is probably a better word than plop. Often, the brunt of the impact falls directly on the magazine feed lips. Watch any average platoon take their kit off. 90% of them will essentially slam their magazines on the ground feed-lips first without even thinking about it.

Fix this bad habit, and magazine performance will become way less of an issue. All these equipment based solutions are of minimal importance compared to the issue of dumbasses slamming their magazines on the ground day in and day out.

I've said for a while now that there needs to be a substantial and deliberate effort to dedicate a day or two Army wide and go through every single magazine in circulation to identify the ones that need to be replaced. Direct every single soldier (in the fighting units at least) to gather up every magazine in his control. At the company level, put everybody in a loose formation with a pile of magazines in front of each soldier. Explain how to test and inspect the magazines. Do it, and chuck the bad ones. Have the supply sergeant do a 1 for 1 swap for every bad magazine found. Now that the bad magazines are out of circulation, have every soldier number his magazines with stencils and spray paint. Instruct them to keep track of which magazines are performing and to ditch the ones that aren't. Instruct them to stop slamming their body armor on the ground. Enforce all of the above.

The VAST majority of M4 malfunctions are magazine related. Fix this magazine epidemic and suddenly people will stop complaining about the M4's reliability.

Good point. I see the same issues in LE where people keep the same malfunctioning magazine because "it works most of the time." usually because it's personally purchased. Toss it and buy a new one! It's not worth your life to save $10-$15....

[TAZ]

A0Cake, you're 100% on the mark. However, I don't see that happening in the near future. To take your common sense approach would mean that every soldier issued a weapon would need better training on how to maintain it and what makes it go bang reliably. Essentially, the military would have to depart from the lowest common denominator stance and switch to the bring everyone to a higher standard model of live. Pretty hard switch. The lowest common denominator thinking is very ingrained across our society. The concept that an individual can be trained and made accountable for their life is about as alien as it gets to some. IMO these types of zero tolerance policies are the dot band aids trying to cover a sucking chest wound. Just. It a good idea.

[diving dave]

besides guys, I saw the President said the war on terror was pretty much over anyway..............

[scottryan]

Of course it is. We had plenty of issues in extremely cold temps with PMAGs. Aside from the obnoxious clanking/springing sound empty USGI magazines make when thrown in a drop pouch, I have absolutely zero issues with them. They stack better, they're more streamlined, smaller... I greatly prefer them in almost every regard. Plus, with the USMC utilizing the IAR, having PMAGs floating around is now a liability.

Exactly.

I have began purging all Pmags out of my collection.

Over Easter weekend we went shooting. We had a pmag so swollen that the rounds were stacked in it side by side instead of staggered.

They were trapped about 1/4 of the way down the magazine body. I had never seen anything like it before.

It would not work in either my buddy's Benelli MR1 or my Colt 6933. This pmag belonged to my buddy who is a "casual gun owner" who doesn't shoot much, and the magazine was like new.

I banged it on the sole of my shoe and couldn't get the rounds to pop back in line to the top of the feedlips. Never seen anything like it.

Ammunition was federal M193. After taking a pocket knife to pluck out the ammo, we put it in a NHMTG magazine and there was no more problem.

[polydeuces]

Cool, thanks.