What brand of flashlights contend with Surefire?

[rob_s]

There are many good, simple, tactical-ish lights from various manufacturers that can get the job done with either separate button switching (copied in the new SF R1 Lawman) or even simpler two level by either bezel loose/tight. Unfortunately, you have to sort through all the other disco lights to find the simple ones:

This has been my issue pretty much since the get-go of all these also-ran lights.

I don't have time to de-geek all these CPF lights. it is frigging maddening. One of them I ordered wound up sucking a coworker and I into a vortex of fiddling while we tried to figure out how to get it to do what I wanted it to do, only to find out I had ordered the wrong model anyway and it wasn't the 5k49cx-1 that I should have bought but the 5k49cx-2. The good news is that it was cheap enough to just leave there on my desk as a monument to one more reason to simply buy Surefire.

If you're a light geek and you have the time and inclination to dork out on all the fiddle-****ing and you don't consider it a waste of time because you enjoy that stuff, rock on. Go find the holy grail of tactifool lights. But for me, I like the fact that I can buy from Surefire and know that the light is more than durable enough, will not succumb to the latest forum-inspired trickery, and will get the job done and have the support I need should it not.

To equate it to guns, I'm an AR geek. I enjoy (or did, it's fading rapidly) learning about them, fiddle-****ing with new parts, etc. But that is wholly a waste of time if you take away the enjoyment aspect. If the goal is to get the job done you go buy a Colt, BCM, or Daniel Defense and you go get the job done.

[uwe1]

Rob, I understand where you're coming from and this is also why I've been very hesitant to get into the non-Surefire lights. There are a ton of options and it's hard to separate the good from the shit. If you don't have the time or the patience, Surefire is a good choice. I don't consider myself a "light geek", but Surefire's pricing and generally lower performance for the money has me looking at other options for general use lights.

Prior to purchasing the two Olight i6 Palandins, I only bought Surefire. I didn't buy many (only 4), but I owned a G2LED, G2 incandescent, 6PLED, and a 6PX Tactical (picked this one up much later). For WMLs, I went with Streamlight TLR1 and TLR1S.

I learned very quickly that the G2s and 6Ps in their stock configurations leave much to be desired for night shooting. This conclusion was reached after taking a Pistol 2 class with EAG. Most people running G2s, G2LEDs, or 6Ps came to the same conclusion. I've taken about 4 classes now with night shooting modules and have never wished that I had less light.

About 2 or 3 years ago, for about $70, it was cheaper to upgrade old G2LEDs and 6PLEDs with Malkoff M61 heads (~250 lumens) than to try to purchase a Surefire light of comparable output. Surefire KX4 heads were very expensive and only produced 120 lumens. It was possible to do the same with TNVC for less, but the TNVC drop-in was an "overseas" made light spec'd out by an American company. Both companies reported that their lights were being tested by some of the more reputable training companies with solid results, reliably running as rifle mounted lights in Surefire bodies. Many members on this site have had solid results with either company in upgrading their old Surefires. I have been more than happy with my Malkoff equipped G2LEDs running Surefire Z58 tailcaps mounted on my rifles. Between two guns, I probably have about 10K rounds with the lights mounted. Many of these round counts took place during carbine classes. Both lights still work. I went with Surefire bodies for reliability and the Malkoff heads have an excellent reputation. I believe they make the M60 heads for Elzetta.

For a tactical use light, it's important to purchase a single click, single function type light. This is where a lot of the disco lights fail, and it's also why I didn't buy any Surefire 6PX Pros. It's frustrating not getting the light level you want, when you want it.

The Olights I purchased will not be for critical, weapon mounted use. They are good to have around the house or to have some spares during camping trips. They are simple, one click on and one off. The bezel is loosened a eight of a turn to get 80 lumens versus 420 lumens. You can get 5 $60 Olights or 1 $300 Surefire. As someone with a family, and needing duplicate pieces of equipment, the Olights just made sense for me.

Just as we all trusted you years ago with the chart and your expertise on ARs, gained by fiddle-****ing with them, when none of us had the patience to do it ourselves, I am asking Dennis for advice on lights.

[rob_s]

The "lower performance" thing I hear about all the time cracks me up to no end. As compared to what? As measured against what metric? A 5.56 AR has "lower performance" than a howitzer, but if I want any meat left on the pig I'm better served with the "mouse gun".

I see people chasing around after "better performance" in all kinds of things lately, ignoring the fact that what they have now is light-years better than what they had yesterday, but they seem to keep thinking that "more" means "better". More lumens, more options, more modes, more, more, moar!

If there is something that a Surefire legitimately isn't doing for you then yeah, go see if there's something that does. But what I see instead is a screwball cycle that makes no sense (and this applies to WAY more than lights)...

1. Guy buys item
2. Guy uses item
3. Guy is happy with performance of item
4. Geek wants moar!
5. Geek lobbies establishment for moar!
6. Establishment tells geek to **** off
7. Geek lobbies secondary market for moar!
8. Secondary market thinks geek knows what he is talking about
9. Secondary market reacts to geek
10. Secondary market produces moar! for geek market
11. Original guy sees moar! and thinks "why don't I have that?"
12. Guy gets distracted by bright-shiny-object (literally)
13. Guy loses sight of what matters and starts chasing after moar!

In this paradigm "real world use" and "you just don't get it 'cause you're not one of us" gets thrown around to justify the moar! sickness of the original guy. It is code for "I have no ****ing idea why I want moar! and I'm pissed off at you for asking me to explain it so I'm going to attempt to discredit you rather than address the topic at hand. I will also use 'I don't have to justify myself to you' as further justification, and eventually will retreat to 'not everything has to be so serious' when all else fails."

[Pappabear]

There is just no need in fighting it. For the value, it's Surefire. I just bought a 6 PX TACTICAL. For one of my SBR' s with Vltor offset, it's a little heavy but oh so nice. And I bought a headlamp minimus. Same thing, a little heavy but REALLY NICE. Great adjustment features for intensity and angle. Both each one for about $100, just look around, and will have for 10 to 20 years.

Surefire, yes.

[HMC]

As measured against what metric?

More lumens.
Longer battery life.
Smaller.
Lighter weight.
More or better options.
SUBSTANTIALLY lower cost.

There are a number of lights out there that beat Surefire on ALL of those metrics.

[uwe1]

I'm sure markm would disagree ! Last I had a PM conversation with him, he went the way of Solarforce.

There is just no need in fighting it. For the value, it's Surefire. I just bought a 6 PX TACTICAL. For one of my SBR' s with Vltor offset, it's a little heavy but oh so nice. And I bought a headlamp minimus. Same thing, a little heavy but REALLY NICE. Great adjustment features for intensity and angle. Both each one for about $100, just look around, and will have for 10 to 20 years.

Surefire, yes.

[CarbonCycles]

More lumens.
Longer battery life.
Smaller.
Lighter weight.
More or better options.
SUBSTANTIALLY lower cost.

There are a number of lights out there that beat Surefire on ALL of those metrics.

Think you might want to reconsider your post, especially if we don't know (do you even know?) what your end goal with this light is.

For example, smaller, lower cost and light weight is not conducive to robust and reliable.

Btw, Rob, you seem a bit cranky today...

[Hehuhates]

Solarforce......If they aren't Chicom Surefire what are they? I'll pay a couple dollars more for lights built by adults or non-slaves. This is what is wrong with shit now. I'll save a few bucks and support slave/child labor. Don't bother telling me about the high wages and benefits paid in Hong Kong, I won't believe you. Keep buying Chinese shit and put all our manufacturers out of business.

[HMC]

Think you might want to reconsider your post, especially if we don't know (do you even know?) what your end goal with this light is.

For example, smaller, lower cost and light weight is not conducive to robust and reliable.

In my attempt to not sound like a fanboy, I neglected to mention any specific brands, which is what the OP was asking for. My picks would be Fenix or Foursevens.

Other than that, what's to reconsider? I wasn't commenting about a specific end goal. I was commenting about measurable metrics one could use for comparing lights to determine which would be best for them.

I'll admit, nobody makes lights as durable as Surefire. But if my non-SF (and better on all other metrics) light can already be used as hammer, how much MOAR durable does it need to be?

[markm]

I'm sure markm would disagree ! Last I had a PM conversation with him, he went the way of Solarforce.

Solarforce. I've been beating the dog shit out of my Solarforce lights for a few years now. It's an alloy tube with a Cree lamp module in it. We're not splitting atoms.

Buying Surefire is like lighting cash on fire. They're nice, but way overpriced. Both brands have switch issues... so you're stuck vetting the switchery either way.