Anyone have one? Anyone know about them? Was thinking about getting is over the Smith Vortex. Why should I? Or, why should I not?
Thx
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Anyone have one? Anyone know about them? Was thinking about getting is over the Smith Vortex. Why should I? Or, why should I not?
Thx
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=22829
for starters. This item has been discussed elsewhere on this forum.
Depending on your intended use, the benefits (reduced felt recoil, decent flash suppression) may or may not outweigh the costs (noticeably louder, and will throw up debris when shooting urban prone or around loose matter). So for some, it may not be worth an extra $100.
I have one. Like it, but it definitely fits into the nice to have, not need to have category. My current project will not include this item.
I have one. Love it! It is my favorite. Though if I had the cash I would like to try the KAC tripple brakeQuote:
Originally Posted by payj
I have 3 and the next AR is getting one. I shot Costa's triple tap brake at a class last summer and to me is about the same in reducing recoil etc.
Kinda apples to oranges as they don't have the same mission.Quote:
Originally Posted by payj
Smith Vortex was designed to give the best flash suppression.
PWS FSC 556 is primarily a brake with flash suppression capability.
I believe the choice will depend on what you want the muzzle device to do for you.
Thanks for the replies. I'm kinda new to this. I want flash suppression along with less felt recoil. Is that what "brake" is?
thx
I am glad that it works better than it looks!:D
Velcro
A flash hider is designed to direct the flow of gas exiting the muzzle in such a way as to reduce or eliminate flash.Quote:
Originally Posted by payj
Doesn't do a thing for recoil.
A muzzle brake is designed to make use the gasses exiting the muzzle to decrease recoil.
Downside is that it oftentimes enhances flash and noise.
PWS FSC is a combination of both a flash hider and a muzzle brake. Not the best flash hider, not the best brake, but does a decent job at both.
Not sure what state you're in, but if you're behind enemy lines in a state like Massachusetts that still recognizes the AWB, (thanks Mitt Romney - for anyone who thinks he's not a RINO), it's a good option if you want a bit of flash reduction....
Roger that, I just installed a PWS FSC47 on one of my AKs...reminds me of the evil Sauron's battle crown! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Velcro
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1.../FSC47_L_3.jpg
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...74/sauron5.jpg
I've got one I bought from Brownells. It's weird because I've never seen the same one posted on the forums. It's the same length as an A2 but also has the flash hiding tines. It's made to attach the NT-4 suppressor. I have it mounted on my 11.5 upper and it reduces recoil quite a bit, but when shooting at night, I'm told it has a huge fireball which can't be seen by the shooter.
There were some night time shooting pics of the FSC 556 somewhere I'll try to dig them up. From what I remember there was a huge fireball compared to other dedicated flash suppressors like the black out or vortex.
What I would really like to see is some video of someone shooting the FSC556 at night.
In terms of muzzle climb control the FSC 556 is awesome. I had it installed on a middy and the rifle felt like it did not move.
I felt more of a push than any thing else which was easy to control with a solid stance. One problem I developed was I became a little sloppy with my stance with this muzzle brake when doing drills at a lower rate of fire.
As the shooter the noise and concussion did not bother me but when I sat back at an indoor range and watched someone else shoot it the concussion and sound was a little annoying. My GF could not stand it at first.
Currently I have the SM 556 variant on my middy and am pretty satisfied with it. It is a little shorter and does not control muzzle climb quite as well as the FSC 556 but is a little shorter overall.
Overall I am pretty happy with these muzzle brake/flash suppressors but from what I remember they suck for suppressing flash.
I think it looks cool! The comment I get when people see mine is usually "That looks evil."Quote:
Originally Posted by Velcro
That just makes my day when I hear that! :D
It works very well for double taps, etc. I haven't shot it at night yet, so I can't say anything about the flash suppression. I would buy one again for another build.
I've been kinda curious about this brake for awhile. What is it's O/A
diameter? 22mm, or ??? For looks....I'm OK with it.
I've been asked if it doubles as a bottle opener. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by DTHN2LGS
I'm trying the FSC556 out on my newest 3-gun rifle. I haven't really wrung it out yet (only 100 rounds down the tube since finishing the build) but it seems to work so far. It's not as flat as a dedicated muzzle brake, but it doesn't blow as much crud back in my face while shooting prone, either.
-C
Chris,Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Rhines
As you noticed they work great but are really good on longer heavier barrels. They're great for an all use rifle but for a dedicated 3gun rifle I'd recommend a true brake. I'm using the Rolling Thunder on my BCM 16" SS410. I was still getting some muzzle lift with mine so I've milled 3 holes at the top of the brake to make it shoot flatter, I'll see if it worked today/tonight at the NRA Range.
After handling mine and shooting yours Brett S. bought a BCM 16" SS410 w/13" Troy/VTAC FF tube, Ionbonded BCM BCG and a BCM Gunfighter CH. and will be getting a BCM lower next week...he's hooked!
I installed a Surefire 556K/212 muzzle brake on his, it's one I had laying around and I bead blasted it. It gives a nice contrast on the upper. I'm certain he'll be happy with the BCM I know I am, great shooting gun.
Later,
Robb
Addax Tactical sells a modified version of the fsc556 that they call the bulldog that I think improves the looks while only sacrificing a little in the flash hiding department (they've got night shoot comparison videos). I've got one and really like it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Velcro
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/k...X/IMG_0106.jpg
has anyone tried this one?
http://gunwurx.com/images/products/display/JPTRE22.jpg
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/JP-Ta...-p/jptre-2.htm
I personally don't see the benefit these "combo" brakes/FH provide.
If you need flash suppression for shooting at night or indoors where you could be a in dark room or whatever then get something that does this really well. These combo brakes/fh still produce a huge flash at night.
If you want a brake then get a brake but you are going to deal with the flash even if it has FH tines on it. I wouldn't get a brake to shoot with unless I could mount a can on it, and had the can (unless its just a range gun or the like). There are a lot of brakes out there that work better than the PWS.
I've shot next to people with the PWS, and even a few lanes down it was annoying as hell. They are not friendly to people in close proximity. The only brake Ive been around that has not rocked the people standing around it is the KAC Triple Tap but obviously its way too pricey for most people. Even with that I would not consider one for duty use unless you had a can to go with it. I own 2, and can comfortably shoot right next to people, and its barely worse than an A2 on a 16" gun.
So if its just a range toy then put whatever you want on it. Im just saying I would personally get whatever worked the best for what I want the gun to do since you are dealing with the negatives anyways. If Im going to get a huge flash and blast anyways get something that works better than the PWS. If your goal is flash suppression the A2 is 5 bucks and works pretty good. Otherwise get something like a blackout or smith. When you try to do both you end up with a system like the PWS that still produces a large flash, concussion, and doesn't do anything particularly better than anything else on the market. Its a poor flash suppressor, and there are tons of brakes out there that do a better job. I bought the Triple Tap's as a both a future can mount interface, and so I could get the muzzle rise down WITHOUT blasting the people next to me with a concussive blast every shot. If it blasted the people I wouldn't have bought one. Its very disconcerting when you are shooting in a line, and the people next to you are rocking your skull with every shot because they decided to put a brake on their SBR (or even a long gun).
"I personally don't see the benefit these "combo" brakes/FH provide."
Gotta agree. The concussion is obnoxious in indoor ranges.
If you spring the gun properly- such as an H2 buffer and a Sprinco "Blue" spring in a midlength gas 16" barrel- and get your support hand further out, the muzzle rise should be minimal.
On a 7.62x51, the PWS makes a tremendous improvement in rearward recoil. No more black & blue shoulder after 500 rounds in a 16" AR. :)
As I have stated before, I am not usually a muzzle brake fan. However, this past week, we got to shoot the new Battle Comp (http://battlecomp.com) on a darkened indoor range. Using XM193 and commercial loaded 55 gr VMAX, all personnel who were present on the range felt flash with the Battle Comp was subjectively about the same as with an A2 flash hider. Despite firing indoors, the concussion was not particularly worse than with an A2 flash hider and better than many other brakes. Although 5.56mm AR15's don't have much recoil, after putting the red-dot on the target, no matter how fast the trigger was pulled, the RDS dot did not appear to move--most impressive. I am particularly looking forward to trying the Battle Comp 6.8 mm version, as well as the 7.62 mm Battle Comp on a 16" LaRue OBR. The lead engineer for Battle Comp is quite knowledgeable with fluid dynamics and has done an outstanding job on this design; likewise, the owner of Battle Comp is a solid individual who is well known in LE circles here. I will be buying more of these!
http://www.tridentconcepts.com/alumn...1353630371.jpg
As one of the few who seemed to not have one of the FSC556s at last summer's course, it was an interesting experience to learn to tune out the muzzle blast from those things. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by supersix4
I only run Vortexes. I took me a few cycles through the drills to learn to ignore the blast.
Those things are awesome - especially if you don't mind sucking the air out of the lungs and rattling the skulls of everyone around you... :pQuote:
Originally Posted by supersix4
DocGKR:Thanks for the write-up on the battlecomp - looks promising. I have a Troy Medieval on my current rifle and it's very effective for reducing climb and getting back on target quickly - my Tripower hardly moves. There is little-to-no noticeable flash when shooting softer ammunition like UMC, or Federal bulk .223, but add XM193, Q3131 or Privi to the mix and the flash - even in bright daylight is stunning. I like this brake, but would like something that offers even minimal flash suppression - we're still under the AWB thanks to Mitt, so any port in a storm...Thanks again.
I've got two.
They're great "ban state" items.
I have a blackout and a FSC. While the blackout is better for flash I don't think that the PWS is all that bad, and is better than some of the others that I have used.Quote:
Originally Posted by og556
At an indoor range that I frequent here in Middle FL that will remain nameless (but advises people to 'ride hard and ______ _____', as the late Col. Jeff Cooper stated ;) ), I shot my BCM 16" middy with both the A2 and the FSC556. I was using properly inserted foamie ear plugs and no ear muffs over them. The difference in volume (I am an LEO now but I was a live sound engineer for many years before that) and blast was minimal. They were both loud, using XM193 55grain Federal FMJ....but they seemed to be about the same, with, back to back, the FSC sounding a bit louder. Other people's ears may be more sensitive, but the performance gain for me was HUGE compared to the relatively small increase in blast. The muzzle just vibrates on the target, whereas with the A2, a minimal-yet-noticeable muzzle jump was experienced.
The Battle comp looks awesome...and I would love to see a comparo between the BC brake, and FSC556, and the KAC TT. I see these as the front runners in tactical muzzle device design.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BufordTJustice
The shooter is going to have a different experience than people standing on either side as the blast is not directed backwards but rather out the sides perpendicular to the barrel.
Like I mentioned earlier Ive been standing next to people shooting the PWS, and it was quite a bit worse than an A2. Noise isn't so much the issue as the concussion that you can actually feel.
I agree that the shooter will get a different experience than a bystander. However, I was shooting in a two-lane concrete block range building, inside of a stall. Any blast was thee for me to feel. I also have an FSC47 on my AK clone and have been next to that when my wife shot it.....Maybe it's different for others, i just didn't feel it was that bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Belmont31R
I have also found that ammo being shot has an enormous effect on the blast and concussion. Wolf from a 22" bolt action almost sounds like it is suppressed. XM193 from a 10.5" SBR can sound very similar to a 300 win mag. I was shooting XM193 from Federal. I would have to say that it's an apples to oranges comparison unless the ammo and barrel length are the same. I've been rattled by a guy with a 16" carbine w/ an A2 before at an outdoor range. It just depends. But apples to apples, I've found that FSC seems about as loud and only slightly more concussive as compared to an A2. YMMV.
How ya been??? long time no talk...Quote:
Originally Posted by joe-bananas
I got to shoot next to the 4 USAF PJs and their surefire brakes :D I dont think there is a much more brutal brake on the market. It took a few cycles for me to ignore their blasts.
And you did a darned good job of keeping up with those kids. Never turn your back on a PJ who has a handful of blanks in his pocket . . .Quote:
Originally Posted by supersix4
I never saw someone detail strip a weapon during drills as fast as DoorGunner84 did after that.
Wish I'd have thought of doing that.
:D
THIS is a common theme in a couple of states. It is why I use one (pinned and welded since threads kill babies!)Quote:
I've got two.
They're great "ban state" items.
Muddyboots
Here's my little bit of input:
FSC556: Excellent, great for designated marksman or competition shooting. Bad as a fighting rifle muzzle, blast is major.
Smith: Best at suppressing flash without a can, simply put, it's the truth there. You won't get the reduction of recoil to the same extent as a brake. Sounds kind of funny, like the AAC...probably related to the helix design.
Battle Comp: To me, this is the best of both worlds on a budget. I'd pin and weld the 1.5 to any 14.5'' to get it to 16'' to avoid a stamp.
KAC Triple Tap: Wow, if you got the money, wow.