Great number of learning points in his story. When it comes to the 1911, I think thats a 1 in a million event. True a different gun could have eliminated it from occuring, but the suspect's rounds could have struck the grip instead damaging the mag and limiting it to one shot. Who truely knows.
The most important thing is that the guy stayed in the fight and now sees the importance of training.
There are a lot of issues with the 1911 vs. modern designs. I own 2 1911's, but I'm going to buy a Glock 19 later this year and I plan to use it as my carry/go-to gun.Quote:
Originally Posted by Artos
In this specific instance the issue was the gentleman's grip. If you grip the 1911 grip safety the wrong way it won't engage and you, in turn, won't be able to fire the weapon until you've changed your grip. In the heat of battle you may not grip the weapon right as you are drawing it. Then you could also make the mistake that this fellow did when he didn't realize that his grip was the problem and performed immediate action on his weapon.
There are definitely better alternatives than the 1911 for a defensive firearm. If I could go back I would have bought a Glock instead of a second 1911. I am still a 1911 fan, though
I started pinning/taping my 1911 grip safeties after the first time that I failed to disengage it on a draw. As Jeff Cooper and many others have said, I can't think of a single way that a grip safety would prevent an accidental (not negligent mind you) discharge.Quote:
Originally Posted by Colt LE6920
Just pin it or cut off the arm.
I remember a guy in one of the FoF classes I attended many years ago went through 6-rounds of Code Eagle and kept pulling the trigger for at least another six before he stopped. He was surprised when he unloaded the revolver and found all six cartridges spent. He was even more suprised when we informed him that he pulled the trigger at least six more times after he went dry.Quote:
Originally Posted by jman4427
In the same class another fellow student got into a "shootout" in which he returned fire three times. When asked after just how many rounds he fired back his response was that he was not able to return fire. It wasn't until he unloaded the revolver and saw that he had three spent cartridges did he believe that he actually shot back.
IMHO, I am surprise that this guy remembered to take the safety off. But I am somewhat confused about his description of the last few seconds before they shot it out.
Ken Hackathorn has that on his main carry 1911. I know this because I personally handled the weapon during his Advanced handgun class in October. I was audacious enough to ask to play with his 1911 and he was kind enough to let me. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Colt LE6920
Looked like a good idea to me if someone was concerned about grip safeties.
Speaking of Ken, in his class he made a point to distinguish between shootings and gunfights. Shootings are events where one party does the shooting. Generally they are over in a couple of rounds. Gunfights are events where at least two parties exchange rounds...and generally people shoot until their weapon is empty and beat feet if they are still able to when the gun stops going boom. Shootings outnumber gunfights by a significant margin. Trouble is you don't get to pick which one you are going to face.Quote:
Originally Posted by jman4427
Wasn't he was hit in the hand?Quote:
Originally Posted by SHIVAN
M_P
Well then he obviously should have been wearing his kevlar gloves ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by modern_pirate
First round grazed his torso then struck his support hand IIRCQuote:
Originally Posted by modern_pirate
Quote:
Originally Posted by John_Wayne777
Unless something has changed; Scott Reitz used to tape down his grip safeties with 100mph tape.
Grazing wound to the stomach, hand injuries, and a shot to the pectoral above the heart.Quote:
Originally Posted by modern_pirate
"One of the guys that had been there, told me that it was almost scary how lucid
and calm that I stayed the entire time while we waited for the ambulance to arrive. It was also discovered
at this time that I'd been shot right above my left pectoral muscle. I don't even recall when that happened."
We all take different things away from AAR's like this. As I said, thinking about all the minutia of events you can not possibly control and then getting shot in the aorta would be a real bunhugger.