Work In Progress: new F1/F4 guide for 41F submissions

there are 4 trustees older than 21 years on my trust. snafu on adding nephews (minors) as trustees. I'll seek proper advice and probably have to revoke their trustee status.

seems a bit ridiculous to submit 2 sets of prints for every application in one submission. Just adds to the overall cost, and in general messing with good people, and anyone on the fence about getting NFA stuff may say forget it.

I was talking with a suppressor manufacturer that I trust, and he said that his source at the ATF 100% confirmed that the one set of prints, good for 2 years (assuming no changes to the trust) was the way it is. Guess he's wrong as well.

I may start another trust with just my buddy that I live with to avoid the hassle of asking my brother and his wife to get x# of prints. The ATF is going to go out of their minds with document and fingerprint storage.

scott

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Originally Posted by A5scott

seems a bit ridiculous to submit 2 sets of prints for every application in one submission. Just adds to the overall cost, and in general messing with good people, and anyone on the fence about getting NFA stuff may say forget it.

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More likely people will just start going the individual route and avoid trusts as the advantage they had is now gone.

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Originally Posted by Bret

More likely people will just start going the individual route and avoid trusts as the advantage they had is now gone.

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That...

Or creating new trusts for each item (or batch of items ordered about the same time), with just the one trustee...and then add all the rest after forms are approved.

I'd originally planned on going the individual route, but will probably go the "just me" trust route and then add the others afterwards.

Is there any reason why faxing wouldn't be allowed for CLEO notification? Seems to me like it would be a good idea because the confirmation provides proof of delivery and the cost is zero.

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Originally Posted by Bret

Is there any reason why faxing wouldn't be allowed for CLEO notification? Seems to me like it would be a good idea because the confirmation provides proof of delivery and the cost is zero.

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The forms all just say you have to notify. Haven't seen that answered via ATF Q&A anywhere, as far as faxing. They did say "mail or deliver" here:

Q: How will CLEO notification be accomplished?
A: The Department has revised the regulations in 27 CFR 479.62 and 479.84 to require the applicant or responsible persons to submit (mail or deliver) a completed copy of the application (Form 1, 4, or 5) or a completed copy of Form 5320.23 (National Firearms Act (NFA) Responsible Person Questionnaire), respectively, to the chief law enforcement officer of the locality in which the applicant or responsible person is located. In the case of a trust, this is considered located at the primary location where the firearm will be maintained. In addition, the “responsible persons” associated with a trust should each submit documentation to their CLEO having jurisdiction where the responsible person is located.

So...could you argue you delivered it by fax?

I was reading the silencershop blog, and they have a list of state level CLEOs to notify in their blog. This way, if you want to avoid local cleos knowing your business, you can. The SS will also handle the cleo notification when using ss, and they mentioned they will redact as much as possible from the applications sent to cleos, such as payment info, serial numbers, passport photos, and personal contact info, and all cleos will be directed to the silencershop with any questions. I bought locally and from SS, It's nice to click a few tabs and have a suppressor on the way, but I like to support the local shops as well.

I'm gonna get a second trust, just for me, to redo at least 1 maybe 2 eForm1 rejections, send em in paper style, and any other items still on the list. Then I will add other responsible persons. When simply adding responsible persons, (not sending a new application) do we need them to mail pics and prints to the ATF?
I already had two lowers engraved, so I'll see if my engraver can engrave a letter in front of my trust name, and that will be my second trust name.

I'm happy to put myself thru the process, because silencers and sbr's had me at hello, but that doesn't mean the new regs aren't a load of crap.

scott

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Originally Posted by A5scott

I was reading the silencershop blog, and they have a list of state level CLEOs to notify in their blog. This way, if you want to avoid local cleos knowing your business, you can. The SS will also handle the cleo notification when using ss, and they mentioned they will redact as much as possible from the applications sent to cleos, such as payment info, serial numbers, passport photos, and personal contact info, and all cleos will be directed to the silencershop with any questions. I bought locally and from SS, It's nice to click a few tabs and have a suppressor on the way, but I like to support the local shops as well.

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As info...

SS gave me the list, and it's back on page 1 of this sticky. I posted up when I added it. They told me they were in the process of updating, thought.

They're not necessarily removing anything. If you use the forms as designed, you fill in the first copy and it populates the rest. Those pieces of info (SN, photo, payment) are all blocked out anyway. Nothing against them, as I have a good relationship with a couple of them...but they're simply using the the forms the same way you would if you did it and followed the instructions.

Many thanks to BigWaylon for putting this together. It's extremely useful!

I have one question: When I had my fingerprint cards done at the local PD they put my previous address in Hawaii on the cards. I haven't gotten my Alaska driving license updated since moving back and that's what they went with because it was in their system. Do I need to get the fingerprints redone on other cards with the correct address or is that a nonissue?

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Originally Posted by kremtok

Many thanks to BigWaylon for putting this together. It's extremely useful!

I have one question: When I had my fingerprint cards done at the local PD they put my previous address in Hawaii on the cards. I haven't gotten my Alaska driving license updated since moving back and that's what they went with because it was in their system. Do I need to get the fingerprints redone on other cards with the correct address or is that a nonissue?

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The regular non NFA paperwork must have matching addresses. I ran into this about two weeks ago transferring a lower. My ID showed a previous address. So my current physical address part on the form had to reflect the same.


I would assume NFA items would be the same.

Want to give another big thanks, this time to AlabamaPaul and Silencer Loft. He took the Form 1 and formatted it so you simply fill it out, choose 2-sided, and hit print. Basically removed the instruction pages and added a couple blank pages.

Two minor changes as well, in case you notice:
1. A couple of the fields have been changed from left-justified to center-justified, which makes the form a little cleaner
2. The SN has been blocked out for the CLEO Copy, which is allowable per Instruction (2)(d)(6), but not done on the ATF's version of the form

You can find the fillable & printable F1 here: Silencer Loft documents

There may be a similar version of the F4 and the 5320.23 in the future.