How does Law Enforcement manage to get by with M&P15s?

[jsbhike]

What is different about the S&W Sport ARs from the other ones being referred to in this thread?

The early ones had 16" 1-8" twist 5R nitrided barrel w/carbine gas and @ A2 profile, integral/oversized trigger guard, no forward assist, no port cover, rear sight was like a chopped carry handle.

[CatBacker88]

4140 is perfectly adequate or a barrel if you don't go Rambo on the mag-dumps and no full auto.

Thank you!

[kirkland]

Supposedly the brunt of the cost comes from the Troy Flip Up Battle Sight and Quad-Rail, which is completely absurd, if you ask me, but then again, I bought it for $546 as a police trade-in, so I paid a mere fraction of the MSRP for a gun with nothing more than light external wear, inside it was literally Like New, probably spent most of its life in a Cruiser.

Don't ask me why S&W didn't spring for a 4150CMV 1/7 Barrel, especially when they were using them for other models. Either way, police bought them, and they remain in their LE Catalog to this very day, so evidently they're popular with police.

I'm guessing that police are of similar mindset to lysander, that the materials are sufficient for the task and S&W offers them some outstanding deals on purchasing a bundle of M&P9 Pistols with M&P15 Rifles which presumably places them beneath the cost of Colt.

Well I can't blame ya for going in for the price, that's a good deal.

[Echo40]

Yeah, I bought it just last year, when guns.com had a sale with a wide selection of police trade-in ARs at low prices. (Colt, FN, DPMS, and a variety S&W of M&Ps, including an M&P10 Sport.)

I had originally planned to purchase a Colt LE6920 that was on Sale for $750, but unfortunately the sale ended the day that I was paid and the price went up to $850, so I browsed the others to see if I could get a better overall deal, and the M&P15X is what I settled on because it offered the best value.

It's also worth noting that I lucked out, as the specific M&P15X which I received had been upgraded with a BCM QD End Plate and Ambi Safety, which was a nice little bonus. It had some external finish wear on the barrel and a light scratch on the lower receiver, but internally it was like new. The hammer itself only had a stripe where the finish had worn down and the BCG was in similar condition, so I can only conclude that it spent most of its career on a rack inside of a police cruiser.
I'm not exactly sure where it came from because it lacked any markings, but I believe that it came from the Nevada Department of Public Safety, based on some research I had done into which LEOs had adopted the M&P15X specifically.

On an interesting side note, I also found that apparently NASA Security was equipped with the M&P15X, which is kind of cool.

[T2C]

As for the 1/7 twist barrel, isn't 1/9 better for bullet weights up to a certain weight all other things being equal?

I schedule range time for law enforcement agencies at a local gun club. A state agency was training with carbines at our facility last week and I asked questions about accuracy. One of the Range Officers told me his agency received 90 Springfield Armory Saint carbines with 1:7 twist barrels and accuracy was awful with their 55g duty ammunition and equally awful with Winchester 55g FMJ. When Springfield Armory was contacted about the accuracy, and other, issues the R.O. was told the carbines should be accurate with Federal 68g HPBT Match ammunition. Shooting match ammunition will crush a training budget in a real hurry.

What is interesting to note is that the same agency has a number of Sig Sauer carbines with 1:7 twist rate barrels that have "reasonable accuracy" with 55g JSP and Winchester 55g FMJ training ammunition. If 3 MOA is acceptable accuracy, and you want a 1:7 twist rate barrel, the Sig Sauer would be preferred over the Springfield Armory carbine. What is also interesting to note is that their maximum qualification distance was reduced to 80 yards.

I've owned a number of Colt LE carbines over the years and only had one that would shoot sub 3 MOA groups with 55g ammunition. I currently own a Colt Match HBAR, with 1:7 twist barrel, that won't group well with any bullet lighter than 68g.

If you are going to shoot bullets lighter than 64g, and want sub 2 MOA accuracy, generally speaking the 1:9 twist rate is preferred. If you have an unlimited budget and can afford to train and shoot with 68g - 77g ammunition, the 1:7 twist rate barrel would be acceptable.

[SteyrAUG]

I schedule range time for law enforcement agencies at a local gun club. A state agency was training with carbines at our facility last week and I asked questions about accuracy. One of the Range Officers told me his agency received 90 Springfield Armory Saint carbines with 1:7 twist barrels and accuracy was awful with their 55g duty ammunition and equally awful with Winchester 55g FMJ. When Springfield Armory was contacted about the accuracy, and other, issues the R.O. was told the carbines should be accurate with Federal 68g HPBT Match ammunition. Shooting match ammunition will crush a training budget in a real hurry.

What is interesting to note is that the same agency has a number of Sig Sauer carbines with 1:7 twist rate barrels that have "reasonable accuracy" with 55g JSP and Winchester 55g FMJ training ammunition. If 3 MOA is acceptable accuracy, and you want a 1:7 twist rate barrel, the Sig Sauer would be preferred over the Springfield Armory carbine. What is also interesting to note is that their maximum qualification distance was reduced to 80 yards.

I've owned a number of Colt LE carbines over the years and only had one that would shoot sub 3 MOA groups with 55g ammunition. I currently own a Colt Match HBAR, with 1:7 twist barrel, that won't group well with any bullet lighter than 68g.

If you are going to shoot bullets lighter than 64g, and want sub 2 MOA accuracy, generally speaking the 1:9 twist rate is preferred. If you have an unlimited budget and can afford to train and shoot with 68g - 77g ammunition, the 1:7 twist rate barrel would be acceptable.

What's funny is my SP1 carbine will do 1 MOA with .55 gr ammo all day long, and we are talking ordinary Lake City and some old stash of Olin ammo. I always get a reliable flyer that busts my group outside 1" but that's me, not the rifle. Every time I manage to put 5 rounds tight the next one is always a gutter ball.

That any "duty weapon" should require match grade ammo to do as well is absurd. Also not sure what is up with your Hbar, it should be able to do Win .55 FMJ just fine. I've seen other shooters with the same rifle (stock, nothing upgraded) put up sub MOA groups.

[ACE31]

On an interesting side note, I also found that apparently NASA Security was equipped with the M&P15X, which is kind of cool.

NASA private contract security? Well folks that says it all, dump your 6920s in the trash as the rocket boys have spoken...LMAO!

[SteyrAUG]

NASA private contract security? Well folks that says it all, dump your 6920s in the trash as the rocket boys have spoken...LMAO!

All kinds of security related to NASA, from a gov agency level similar to DOE to independent contractors who handle "other stuff" that doesn't require the same level of response and all the way down to G and D license security guards. NASA is pretty much the other Disney World in Florida, it's almost it's own country. And that is just the stuff I know about having never worked there.

[Echo40]

NASA private contract security? Well folks that says it all, dump your 6920s in the trash as the rocket boys have spoken...LMAO!

I'd honestly like to live in a world in which folks didn't look towards organizations who make choices to equip an entire workforce for an example of how best to arm themselves on an individual level and thus folks actually exercised their individuality by making informed personal decisions and selections to fit them best rather than just following the example of their favorite branch of the military.

If nothing else, it would make carry discussions and picture threads more interesting to scroll through due to there being more variety than just furniture or finish, assuming those aren't likewise all selected based on what authority is fielding them.

It's a wonder that Checkmate M9 Magazines weren't extremely popular on the civilian market during the time that the Army had a contract with them.

[SteyrAUG]

It's a wonder that Checkmate M9 Magazines weren't extremely popular on the civilian market during the time that the Army had a contract with them.

Actually that kind of works against the point you are trying to make. When Checkmate M9 mags failed for the military, NOBODY would touch them after that except as a disposable range magazine.

And yes, what is best for some mil group or LE group may or may not be the best option for individuals looking for home defense, but it sure is better than relying on gun magazine articles or YT reviews with few exceptions. There is also a reason most people who ask hear "6920 and done" for all the reasons stated in the last 10 pages.

Are there better rifles, absolutely. Are there other platforms that would also be suitable candidates, absolutely. Is there anything out there that does it as well for the same money or cheaper...well probably not. If all you are doing is punching paper, sure go ahead. If there is even a chance you might have to use this to protect yourself or the people you love...that isn't the time to see if you can save $100 on something that might be "good enough."

Keep in mind there is a Hi Point forum full of people who are absolutely convinced that their choice of firearm (handgun and carbine) is completely reliable, dependable and everything else is overpriced marketing. They will tell you that NOBODY needs a S&W M&P because their Hi Point does everything they need and more. Some people here are sorta attempting the same argument.